ChuckerCanuck 2.0

Good post, but you must mean Paul David Hewson aka Bono of U2
 

(continued from the previous thread) :

You make a valid point , Chucker ,
but it still may be a great opportunity to give Dion a nice swat.

Besides, it is a matter of honour, not to mention the possibly deciding issue in the next election.

How can one walk away from a challenge, and expect to be taken seriously?

Let the games begin .

Start the election campaign now .
Go for the throat .
Shoot to kill .
He who draws blood first ,
has the initiative .
 

Because, there's more important work to be done.

All the way up to the Francophonie in Quebec City.

Until that is done, no election. No campaign.

Its not a matter of honor. The planet already exploded last year. Its either too early or too late to be talking about this.

Plus, to debate on this and now, already hands the Liberals framing this issue. That's not smart.

Let them go on developing their ideas and announcing them half-baked. But frame the agenda and debate on your terms.
 

You may be right Chucker , but the Liberals have already framed the issue, one that will affect and possibly destroy our economy.
While I see your points, it is, after all the BBQ season, and Dion may have just offered himself up as a sacrificial lamb.
It's summer, and it's not like there's a whole lot of governing goin' to be happening anyway (at least in the HoC).
Harper may wish to serve up Dion, for the country's platters.

And the matter of honour I refered to, is the choice of whether one picks up the gauntlet on this challenge, or not.
 

Chucker is correct. There should be no debate. If Dion wants to yammer on, he could have worked harder to pull the plug and force an election. He didn't. But wants it both ways.

I have never been so profoundly disengaged in Cdn politics in my entire life. There is no one to vote for. How sad.
 

The personal challenge to debate, that is, no matter what the issue may be...
 

I see Chucker's and your points too, Sheena, but it just doesn't feel right, to back down from Dion, or the Liberals, of all people...
 

Dion only put it out there because he knew what a hopeless cause it was. But he at least can sleep at night pretending he did a tough guy thing. If there was any chance he'd have to deliver, he'd have stayed inside the carefully safety belted booster seat in the back seat of the family Volvo.
 

I've been saying that all along, Sheena, but if Dion wants it both ways, here is a chance to impale him.
Both ways.
 

They're both loser dorks who lucked out because smart successful people in the real world aren't giving a shit about running for office these days.

Our nation has finally gotten the government it deserves.
 

That's one reason I admire politicians, 'cus they didn't have to volunteer to put up with constant shit and abuse, and could probably be making way more money in the private sector.

Instead, they chose to serve their country, to try to change it into their own dreams and visions, while giving the people the ultimate choice, on whether to accept or reject their dreams.

Of course, some of them may simply be in it for the glory, but if they deliver, then who cares...
 

Sorry , Sheena .

I didn't mean to get the last word in .
 

Dion should debate with Environment Minister Baird ... not the Prime Minister.

The debate should also include Lizzie May, JackoLayton, but nobody from the separatist BQ because their interests are not wholly Canadian. Maybe throw in Suzuki too..!!!

Bring on Dion and let's start the debate ..LOL
 

Cue Jack Layton.
Step up Jack and see if Dion will accept your challenge to an enviro policy debate.
After all, this challenge is 2 fold, also about keeping the NDP OUT of the enviro debate.
 

John Baird would tear them to shreds.

Hardly sporting.

Though Polliviere could stand in, when Baird steps out, for a Gagh and Blood-wine break...
 

Dion wants to debate Harper because Dion doesn't want other people in the debate. That is why Harper should lay low.

It's almost a given that at least three or four Premiers are going to come out quite vehemently against this plan once they get their acts together. There is no way this thing is revenue neutral at a provincial level, and the losing provinces will come out harshly to defend what they will see as a wealth transfer in which they are on the losing end.

There's also industries that could end up losing big time on this such as the Ontario and Quebec manufacturers. It's much more in the federal Conservatives interests to have people see these groups come out against Dion, then for the Conservatives to do it themselves and be accused of fear-mongering.

The more of these groups that come out against the plan, the more likely people are to question the wisdom of it and that plays into Harper's hands more than Baird running his mouth. Besides, more likely than not Baird is going to be spending the summer drafting up Plan B in case it's needed.
 

Dion can't debate Baird because Jason Kenney is the official Party spokesman. However, if the reaction is not toned down isn't there the risk of looking like the PM is scared of a debate? Just a thought.

Another thought on toning down. Using words like "screwed" may seem funny to our generation but what about our church going elders we count on so much?
 

I don't want politicians debating this issue. I want true climate scientists debating this instead. Gore and Suzuki have refused any debates. I wonder why that is. If they can make such outrageous conclusions (the Earth has a fever), then they should be the ones debating this. Come on Gore and Suzuki, I'd love to hear you defend yourselves and your beliefs.

Barb
 

Great point , Barb .

Though many scientists dare not speak out against the official dogma, for fear of jeopardizing their livelihoods, there are several available, who don't have such considerations to bear.

And you'd said that Gore and Suzuki have refused any and all debates, and you'd wondered why.
I would suggest that this is exact reason that Harper should debate Dion.


Cheers .
 

I mean , am I the only lecherous Conservative out there, or does anyone else think we've just been handed Dion's ass on a bronze platter?
 

Midnight, if you had learned some history, you would have learned about the Greeks Bearing Gifts.

Dion is ready and willing to deal with Harper on his own terms.

Harper does not have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the actual issues and problems.

As for Alberta, Dion's Green Plan is a blessing in disguise. As long as Stelmach and Dion are pragmatic and realistic, nothing but good can flow from these proposals.

Of course the Calgary Oil Barons are going to have to put some more water in their wine, but that is a good thing.
 

Wasn't that the Trojans ?

And if you water their wine ,
they get really pissed off .
 

The Prime Minister and Goverment of Canada will NOT impose a carbon tax on Canadians. period.

End of debate.
 

Give me a Woman , who loves beer ,

and I will conquer the world .


--- Kaiser Wilhelm II
 

Here's my prediction ...

Sandra Buckler issues a terse statement basically repeating what Harper has been saying---"
This is nothing but a tax grab by Mr. Dion to pay for his many promises. He has no emissions targets. There is nothing to debate here"

Soon after, Layton challenges Dion to a debate. And Dion accepts.

Dion himself admitted that his plan is intended to lure left-wing voters. To have the left coalesce around him.

So this is really a debate that should be held within the left. The right is almost entirely with Harper, no matter what Dion might wish to believe.
 

Oooh , coalesce ...

Great word , CJ .

Haven't heard it in awhile ...

Will have to incorporate it into my love poetry.

And let the Left ,
tear themselves to shreds ...
 

No election, no debate. Simple.

I agree with Chucker. Why should Harper waste one minute of his precious time on this ludicrous proposition? If Dion were really serious, he would have assisted the other two oppostion parties in bringing down the government.

He's all talk, no action.
 

Now he wants a debate?
And here I thought that was what they did in the house of Parliament...Debate.
Oh but the Libs could not control the debate in the House so he wants it on the Liberal friendlt CTV.
Tell Ding dong that his debate will come when he has the balls to force an election, no trial runs.
 

Just like I thought, the Harpercons have been posturing all along, and will not engage Dion in a real debate over public policy.

That tells me that Harper does not have the strength of his own convictions, and that in turns tells me that he is not fit to be Prime Minister.

He is surrounded by a few Americans like Jason Kenney, but Harper is a poor judge of charactere when it comes to putting together a cabinet.
 

I posted this in the wrong spot... but what a wonderful response I got from JG.

Oh and Joe, I don't for a minute believe your from Alberta... and if you are, your about 12 years old.

You prove you live here, and I'll trade my Shit (joegreen) kickers in for a pair of highheels.

I have to admit, I tip my hat to Dion for having the balls to start the debate... and it's clearly a debate who's time has come.

What piss' me of is that the politicians, Tory and Liberal alike, go for optics, not practical attack.

Look around you.

Right now, sitting in front of your computer and look around the room your sitting in.

Can you see more than 2 items that contain no petroleum in them?

Really, can you look at anything in your house that doesn't have some sort of petroleum incorporated in it's make-up, design, production what have you?

I tried this last night, and you know what? There wasn't a single item I could point at in my house that didn't have petroleum involved in it's production in some fashion.

We need to look at passing legislation forces our natural consumerism to be prone to purchasing items that either having reusable properties, or are completely biodegradable. Legislation that makes items like Plastics be recyclable at all stages, and penalizes anything that can't be.

We need to make that cheap plastic tuperware too expensive compared to something re-usable and capable of steralization... glass.

We need to make it expensive to sell enviromentally impacting consumer goods, so that environmentally positive goods become the cheaper option.

Regardless of a persons environmental awareness, you can trust consumerism to always go for the better price tag.

If you can't change the way people shop... change what they shop for from the inception point.

That would make a tremendous impact right from the get-go, have little impact on the economy in Canada in general because most of the cheap shit comes from outside the country anyway, and we'd actually live healthier anyways.

Doesn't mean there won't be plastic, just that the plastic will be bio-degradable.

You see JG...

"Cleaning up ALL industrial sites, not just oil and gas production facilities, SHOULD be driven primarily with concerns for PUBLIC HEALTH"

You started getting the gist there.

But in the same sentence shit the bed at:

"not money, and not profit"

Clean living, environmental friendlyness, profit, capitalism, and greed, do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Petroleum is here to stay for the next 500 years. How we use petroleum and it's derivitives is the question to be answered, and that answer will give continuity to the length of time we actually continue using petroleum.

There will be no wealth shift, there will be no "end run pain" for Albertans, and all of us "CEO's and bean counters" despite what happens, will all still be on the golf course in the summer, eating prime rib and drinking scotch.

I'll weather any storm, because I can afford to weather any storm... you and your kind however will suffer, and suffer, and your lot in life will still suck, no matter how much wealth a government tries to take out of my pocket.

If what they take from me becomes to much, I move to a place where they don't take so much and continue on...

You, on the other hand, are no better off, because those same people who are trying to bleed me, have no intention of giving my wealth to the teeming mass'.

You know, people like you.

Meanwhile I and people like me, will still be driving, living comfortably, with little overall impact to their lives, busily creating new types of goods to sell to people like you, so that we can continue to live well, and drive economic growth.

There is no "Social" panacea JG. There will be no mass awareness shift... 4 billion of 6 billion people want what 2 billion of 6 billion people have, and they are going to get it.

I'll still be making good money giving those four billion what they want.

You, and the 1.8 billion peasants just like you, will simply pay more, receive less, all in the name of a movement that never really existed... and never really gave a shit about you sans your vote and what they had to tell you to get it.

Joe Fell Off A Cow in Calgary continues with his rant like a litany from the Libertarian Reformed Church of Objectivism and continues with its arrogant, ignorant and stupid attack upon the poor, and with an unjustified sense of entitlement.

Joe, go and fuck yourself you dumb turd. You and your kind have to be dragged kicking and screaming to any public health reform. It was no different with your predecessors in London during the great cholera outbreaks caused by the lack of adequate sanitation. Capitalists bitched and complained abou the costs that doctors and engineers were imposing with new sewage systems.

IF you had to wait for a capitalist like you Joe to approve sewage systems to control public health hazards, you would wait forever. That is because you are a pig, and you would rather hide in your fenced off compounds, rather than address the problems of public health.

Your greed is a "cardinal sin", but your behavior is because your kind are mental defectives.

Just like communists, no better and no worse. Only a communist would starve over 7 million people as part of his economic plan. Your kind would deny public health to billions of people on this planet for the same reason, your "ideology".

Fuck the whole lot of you! I say perhaps the time has come to make war on capitalists and communists alike.

Something like a quarantine that Jack Kennedy imposed upon Cuba when that band of communists would prefer to starve their own people, but still point nuclear weapons at its neighbours.

I live in Alberta, and as far as I am concerned, Ed Stelmach has not gone nearly far enough to put your kind of filth out of business.

Bye bye Ms. Amerikan Pie!

Probably not JG... you see, Eddy likes my cheques to his campaigns and party.

What you get him for X'mas? A rock?
 

Wow! I'm outta breath from reading that last post by Joe Calgary!
Now ask me what I think and I'll say "what he said...".
One thing though, Joe Calgary, before you trade in your shit kickers, please lend them to me so I can use them on that lump of crap called JG.
I know that if the shitheads in Ontario, led by Craig Oliver and Jane Taber, elect Dion and the Liberals then Alberta will separate.There are too many citizens of Alberta who grew up on the stories of the NEP to let that happen again. Most of them grew up DURING the NEP and suffered from it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and this bunch of voters are a lot fucking stronger that their forebears.Don't fuck with us Ontario! AND, you'd do well to remember the words of that famous Japanese Admiral about awakening a sleeping giant!
 

I notice Dion only initiated this challenge when the shop closed for summer, meaning there was no longer a chance to force an election, and actually have a debate. Kinda like some chicken shit wanna be bully throwing a stick at a lion through the bars of a cage. I'll bet if Harper actually opened the cage door and accepted, there would be a whole list of conditions from Dion, starting with his pet moderator.
 

If we catch any Liberal North of the Manitoba/Ontario border, we're gonna give them a green horse to ride.... minus the fucking saddle!
 

How things can change in the blink of an eye, or a google search. Watch for this to disappear from print and tv, until dion explains why he stole a copyright name for his plan. Who will take the fall for this, and who will be asked to resign. c.t.v. sat on this for a week, and let ollie and jane do their thing, and get dion some airtime. Wonder if he still wants a debate.
Will he respond to a question,with, it's not easy to steal a copyright.
I am beginning to think that poor dion has been set up by wanna be leaders, with the help of ctv. Shouldn't they have warned him before he got so clap happy.
Maybe the Clapper co will sue next.
 

OK, Maryt,
Dig a little deeper into the shit pile, OK?
Some of us have enough trouble with cyberspace without navigating blindly into the throes of Liberal chicanery. Gotta website for us to go to to fully understand what you're saying?
Thanks herring choker!
 

I gotta agree with CC and Sheena - call an election if you want a public debate. Besides, what better motivation (for both sides equally) is there to kick ass in a debate than an impending election?

I'm with Sheena -- seems like there's no one to vote for right now.
 

Old squid, sorry but this story just broke this a.m.
Nationalnewswatch has it, as does Jacksnewswatch, from Jacksnewswatch has other links to the story.
It appears the Green Shift is a registered trademark of a cdn company. They are not happy with the liberals. They have no connection to the liberals, but have worked with the NDP.
Just read the comments, and follow links provided.
 

JAson Bo Green,
Know what I'd like to see after the next election?
A complete expulsion of the current bureauracy, that's what!The current crop is a mixed breed of Libs/Cons/Reforms/FLQs/PDQs/ Blocs/NDPs and maybe even some cocksuckers. They switch hats at the drop of the ballot box. THEY run the fucking government so nothing ever changes except the color of the party in power.. red, blue, or puke.If the whole bureauracy can't be changed, then let's hang every fucking deputy minister we can catch as soon as the writ is dropped.
 

MARYT,
Just read the story at Newswatch.
This is fucking sweet!
Now where's that asshole Joe Green?
C'mon Joey. explain this one so this "intectually bankrupt" ole drunk can understand it.
 

So, the wannabe next Prime Minister of Canada is willing to steal a trademark from a Canadian company he is more than willing to tax?
Or did I have one to many wodkas today?
 

Hey, if the owners of GreenShift talked to CTV about this a week befroe CTV's Question Period, aren't Jane and Ollie guilty of"moral bankruptcy", or at least, unbananced journalism,in giving DION's plan airtime on Sunday's show and not mentioning the company's trademark?
Oh fuck, what am I saying? We're talking CTV.... forgrt it.
 

Oh fuck, what am I saying? We're talking CTV....

Oh? The same CTV where Belinda's leftover whipped dog Petey Mac is boinking the News Director?
 

The flying saucer speaks to all of them!
 

Perhaps he wants the inside scoop .