Saturday, September 02, 2006
Cumuluphobia
My fear of flying draws upon a thousand little fears, of which, actual, man-made terror is not biggest. That slot is reserved for clouds. From low, brooding storm clouds to wispy fogs stretching to 29,000 feet - all manner and variety trigger rivulets of anxiety the minute whatever tube and wing I am strapped to launches itself into the air. Only perfectly clear days - the kind that come with temperatures good for ice cream storage or in the climates where the only source of water is a 53' trailer with 22 pallets of Poland Springs.
Even cumulus clouds - white fluffy friendlies from which the highest quality toilet paper rolls - can send me loopy - doubly so if I'm in an aisle seat away from the window. Every little puff of cloud delivers some unsettling roil to the plane and the centre of these vapor marshmellows are no less blinding than their darkest, angriest cousins. Dropping into O'Hare airport in the company of dozens of planes the cumulus clouds look to me like an army of brain-eating zombies that I have no option to avoid. (Please, if its clear in Milwaukee, can't we land there and drive down to Chicago???)
So, on Wednesday, when Hurricane Ernesto precluded a scheduled dip into the Carolinas, I seized the opportunity to drive instead of book new flights for the final leg of this two-week, seven-city work related auto-de-fe, ooops, I mean odessey. I drove to Pittsburgh, ten hours from Montreal via Syracuse, Buffalo and Erie, PA. It was the second time I have done this. At a leisure pace, its a great ride where the last section through Pennsylvania is the finest.
If Ireland has as many shades of green as the Inuit have kinds of snow, it would still look dull to the lush, rolling countryside of Pennsylvania. The thriving flora brings with it a thriving fauna - so the I-79, cutting south through the dense woodlands of the state's western edge, is an unbroken line of roadkill. When I drove this last two hours south into Pittsburgh, I noticed that along with the smashed racoons and pulverized "no-really-sure-at-this-point"s, there were lots of blown tires as well. Reaching three-quarters of the way, almost at Slippery Rock University, I reached a sharp turn where the outer road edge dropped off into a steep, deep median. I asked myself, "hmmm. what if the tires blew on my car at this moment - what would happen to me?"
To reinforce the point, a passenger bus wobbled past well beyond the speed limit. Blown tires are much less scary than aggregations of mositure in the air; but their consequences are much more deadly. So, I will fly to Pittsburgh next time I go. (Actually, to Cleveland and drive from there because its much cheaper and avoids Toronto/Philidelphia).
For those of us who suffer from EFF (Excessive Fear of Flying), stories like that help. In fact, I could record Kelsey Grammar reading that story with the sound of whale calls in the background and sell a million downloads on ITunes, so that EFF sufferers can remind themselves why they chose to fly next time they are at a de-icing station on the way to runway 7. Of course, there's a pill you can take to eliminate the symptons of EFF but the side effects are extreme stomach cramps, hair loss and unwanted hair growth. The trade off doesn't seem quite there for me. Yet.
Even cumulus clouds - white fluffy friendlies from which the highest quality toilet paper rolls - can send me loopy - doubly so if I'm in an aisle seat away from the window. Every little puff of cloud delivers some unsettling roil to the plane and the centre of these vapor marshmellows are no less blinding than their darkest, angriest cousins. Dropping into O'Hare airport in the company of dozens of planes the cumulus clouds look to me like an army of brain-eating zombies that I have no option to avoid. (Please, if its clear in Milwaukee, can't we land there and drive down to Chicago???)
So, on Wednesday, when Hurricane Ernesto precluded a scheduled dip into the Carolinas, I seized the opportunity to drive instead of book new flights for the final leg of this two-week, seven-city work related auto-de-fe, ooops, I mean odessey. I drove to Pittsburgh, ten hours from Montreal via Syracuse, Buffalo and Erie, PA. It was the second time I have done this. At a leisure pace, its a great ride where the last section through Pennsylvania is the finest.
If Ireland has as many shades of green as the Inuit have kinds of snow, it would still look dull to the lush, rolling countryside of Pennsylvania. The thriving flora brings with it a thriving fauna - so the I-79, cutting south through the dense woodlands of the state's western edge, is an unbroken line of roadkill. When I drove this last two hours south into Pittsburgh, I noticed that along with the smashed racoons and pulverized "no-really-sure-at-this-point"s, there were lots of blown tires as well. Reaching three-quarters of the way, almost at Slippery Rock University, I reached a sharp turn where the outer road edge dropped off into a steep, deep median. I asked myself, "hmmm. what if the tires blew on my car at this moment - what would happen to me?"
To reinforce the point, a passenger bus wobbled past well beyond the speed limit. Blown tires are much less scary than aggregations of mositure in the air; but their consequences are much more deadly. So, I will fly to Pittsburgh next time I go. (Actually, to Cleveland and drive from there because its much cheaper and avoids Toronto/Philidelphia).
For those of us who suffer from EFF (Excessive Fear of Flying), stories like that help. In fact, I could record Kelsey Grammar reading that story with the sound of whale calls in the background and sell a million downloads on ITunes, so that EFF sufferers can remind themselves why they chose to fly next time they are at a de-icing station on the way to runway 7. Of course, there's a pill you can take to eliminate the symptons of EFF but the side effects are extreme stomach cramps, hair loss and unwanted hair growth. The trade off doesn't seem quite there for me. Yet.
Comments:
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I have it on hard evidence that once you re-introduce smoking in airplanes, instances of terror plots, hijacking and even really bad weather--will decrease almost overnight. Portable hookah sales will go up along with a general mellowing out among unruly passengers. Nobody's going to be nervous; terrotists will be happy with their hookahs.
Business class will be full of ecstatic Ontario tobacco farmers.
Dalton McGuinty might even light up, up forward (He has been rather hard to light of late).
Business class will be full of ecstatic Ontario tobacco farmers.
Dalton McGuinty might even light up, up forward (He has been rather hard to light of late).
Your problem Charles is that you're an engineer. I've met very few of you who aren't busily thinking about stresses, load bearing such and such, about torque...
my dad ruined air travel for me.
Fucking engineers.
my dad ruined air travel for me.
Fucking engineers.
Poor Cameron, hates us engineers.
I am an engineer and a pilot, and I have a lot of sympathy for people afraid of flying. My nephew is so frighted of flying that it affects the entire family, since they cannot even fly off for an odd vacation without unmanageable consequences.
Some airlines offer "courses" (actually controlled experiences) to help these people manage their fear of flying.
I think a large part of this is not understanding how your body feels when it undergoes three dimensional motion, such as in bumpy weather. Add to that the fact that all commercial airliners are designed for their wings to flex considerably, and for the odd noises that go bump, such as wheels retracting after take off, and being extended into the slipstream on final approach, with all its noise and odd vibrations, it is rather easy to develop a long list if irrational fears.
It seems to me that these sorts of "courses" or "experiences" for all young people at school would go a long way to helping address these kinds of problems. Even if you do not like flying (and who does with all the "security activity") you should be able to at least manage the irrational impulses that all human beings have as a starting point.
Cameron here again displays the telltale signs of being a "neocon" i.e. lack of compassion for others.
I am an engineer and a pilot, and I have a lot of sympathy for people afraid of flying. My nephew is so frighted of flying that it affects the entire family, since they cannot even fly off for an odd vacation without unmanageable consequences.
Some airlines offer "courses" (actually controlled experiences) to help these people manage their fear of flying.
I think a large part of this is not understanding how your body feels when it undergoes three dimensional motion, such as in bumpy weather. Add to that the fact that all commercial airliners are designed for their wings to flex considerably, and for the odd noises that go bump, such as wheels retracting after take off, and being extended into the slipstream on final approach, with all its noise and odd vibrations, it is rather easy to develop a long list if irrational fears.
It seems to me that these sorts of "courses" or "experiences" for all young people at school would go a long way to helping address these kinds of problems. Even if you do not like flying (and who does with all the "security activity") you should be able to at least manage the irrational impulses that all human beings have as a starting point.
Cameron here again displays the telltale signs of being a "neocon" i.e. lack of compassion for others.
As for Ivan and his "smoking", I do not agree with smoking on aircraft. Anyone that cannot control a craving for a cigarette for a couple of hours, is really unfit to fly as a passenger, and actually requires medical attention first, before boarding an aircraft.
Smoking on aircraft can even be dangerous, such as a DC9 that caught fire and nearly killed everyone on board, as a result of a fire that began in a lavatory.
Aircraft structures are light and thin, and it does not take much of a fire to lead to disaster aboard an aircraft. Just look at the lethal consequences of an onboard fire aboard the Swiss Air flight that crashed off the coast of Halifax, killing everyone on board.
Smoking on aircraft can even be dangerous, such as a DC9 that caught fire and nearly killed everyone on board, as a result of a fire that began in a lavatory.
Aircraft structures are light and thin, and it does not take much of a fire to lead to disaster aboard an aircraft. Just look at the lethal consequences of an onboard fire aboard the Swiss Air flight that crashed off the coast of Halifax, killing everyone on board.
Joe, would you please do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just shut your fucking mouth?
I don't hate engineers. I. WAS. JOKING. YOU. FUCKING. WASTE. OF. DNA.
I don't hate engineers. I. WAS. JOKING. YOU. FUCKING. WASTE. OF. DNA.
those courses do help.
for example, I did an internet based course and the pilot who wrote it up made a good comparison:
when you are running down the road at a good clip (e.g., 100 km/hr) and you hit a bump, it feels like you've jumped twenty feet even though the car might have lifted 2 or 3 inches.
The bumps on a plane are similarly exagerrated - the plane moves nary a foot and you feel like you've dropped 1000.
Speed is also a factor.
--------------
Another thing he said that helped -
to have some visceral sense of lift, stick your hand out of a car at a good speed - feel the force as the air pushes your hand up.
for example, I did an internet based course and the pilot who wrote it up made a good comparison:
when you are running down the road at a good clip (e.g., 100 km/hr) and you hit a bump, it feels like you've jumped twenty feet even though the car might have lifted 2 or 3 inches.
The bumps on a plane are similarly exagerrated - the plane moves nary a foot and you feel like you've dropped 1000.
Speed is also a factor.
--------------
Another thing he said that helped -
to have some visceral sense of lift, stick your hand out of a car at a good speed - feel the force as the air pushes your hand up.
but you're right Cameron -
in the height of my panic, I look around at the sleepers, talkers and newspaper readers, and think:
"you guys aren't thinking about the 1000 little mistakes and cock-ups that could get us in trouble"
now, the actual mortality rate from all plane crashes is about 50%.
So, I also tell myself, mr. newspaper reader and mrs. compeletely asleep - the bell tools for thee, not me.
in the height of my panic, I look around at the sleepers, talkers and newspaper readers, and think:
"you guys aren't thinking about the 1000 little mistakes and cock-ups that could get us in trouble"
now, the actual mortality rate from all plane crashes is about 50%.
So, I also tell myself, mr. newspaper reader and mrs. compeletely asleep - the bell tools for thee, not me.
I suffer from EFF, too Chuckercanuck. I'm always praying my husband won't win the incentive trips at work because it means I'll have to fly somewhere. 'Course he has, and I do, which entails weeks of mental preparation. I focus on the guy who keeps reading the newspaper during the flight attendants 'survival tips' lecture and all the other people who exude that "this is not a good day to die" confidence.
My problem is a Murphy's law kind of thing... the woman who avoids flying has got to be the one who expires in fiery crash. People wouls say things like:
"You heard about Madame?"
"Yes, isn't that awful?"
"You know, she was terrified of flying."
Anyhoo, glad to read you made it in one piece. I'm sure your wife would appreciate you taking the safest route to work, whatever that is.
My problem is a Murphy's law kind of thing... the woman who avoids flying has got to be the one who expires in fiery crash. People wouls say things like:
"You heard about Madame?"
"Yes, isn't that awful?"
"You know, she was terrified of flying."
Anyhoo, glad to read you made it in one piece. I'm sure your wife would appreciate you taking the safest route to work, whatever that is.
# posted by 
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:51:00 AM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:51:00 AM
gawd cameron, cut joe green some slack, he's mellowed out big time as of late
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:05:00 AM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:05:00 AM
montreal madame,
especially in winter, that route is surely by air.
note: I too read through the emergency procedures - I've heard them for virtually every popular type of commercial plane about a dozen times each.
trust me, I know the drill.
if I'm on a new plane, then I scope out the exits myself - like at a hotel.
especially in winter, that route is surely by air.
note: I too read through the emergency procedures - I've heard them for virtually every popular type of commercial plane about a dozen times each.
trust me, I know the drill.
if I'm on a new plane, then I scope out the exits myself - like at a hotel.
Actually, Jacobin, you're full of shit. He hasn't toned down.
I made a joke and then he accuses me of lacking empathy/compassion for others and then accuses me of being a neocon.
Fuck you for backing up his idiocy and fuck him for spewing it.
I made a joke and then he accuses me of lacking empathy/compassion for others and then accuses me of being a neocon.
Fuck you for backing up his idiocy and fuck him for spewing it.
Sheena is somewhat obsessed with air safety, since she flies average 70-100 times a year and has done so since the late 90s. Don't read these sites, Chucker...
PPRUNE Pilots forum
NTSB Searchable Accident Database
PPRUNE Pilots forum
NTSB Searchable Accident Database
And Cameron, Good God! Take a pill. It's Sunday morning on a long weekend. Quit taking the bait, man.
Sheena, and I'm working while my wife has control of the little monkey.
I post here to pass time while the progress bar moves along.
I post here to pass time while the progress bar moves along.
Thought I was one of the last people so terrified of flying these days even though I do.
I am the kind of person that other passengers wish they were not seated anywhere near, I am always apologizing.
The only way I can fly is with my husband, he keeps me under control, that and liquor. Once by myself, never again!
You speak of rivets Cameron, shudder! About five years ago when we were coming in for a landing I was seated in the window seat near the wing and I KNOW that I saw a small piece of metal fly off. You bet that I said something but I was brushed off, told that it was likely my imagination and that it wasn't possible. I know what I saw, reported it to the airline anyways, never heard back.
My husband is one of the annoying paper readers who are so confident and enjoys flying, it's irritating!
I am the kind of person that other passengers wish they were not seated anywhere near, I am always apologizing.
The only way I can fly is with my husband, he keeps me under control, that and liquor. Once by myself, never again!
You speak of rivets Cameron, shudder! About five years ago when we were coming in for a landing I was seated in the window seat near the wing and I KNOW that I saw a small piece of metal fly off. You bet that I said something but I was brushed off, told that it was likely my imagination and that it wasn't possible. I know what I saw, reported it to the airline anyways, never heard back.
My husband is one of the annoying paper readers who are so confident and enjoys flying, it's irritating!
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:27:00 AM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:27:00 AM
Cameron, you're a neocon?! Hahahahaha, a great Sunday morning laugh!
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:30:00 AM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:30:00 AM
The rivets rotate in their holes. This does not mean they are no longer doing their job. It just freaks the fuck out of me.
I'm ok once we're in the air and flat. The looking out the window and seeing the ground where sky should be I don't like and I'm not a big fan of take off and landing (where most crashes happen).
I'm ok once we're in the air and flat. The looking out the window and seeing the ground where sky should be I don't like and I'm not a big fan of take off and landing (where most crashes happen).
I read where most fatalities happen within 25 miles of home.Haven't been back since.
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:53:00 AM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:53:00 AM
cam,
same here:
once I'm level I'm happy. On the tarmac, I'm happy.
but its the passing through clouds that scares me! up and down. more often down then up.
same here:
once I'm level I'm happy. On the tarmac, I'm happy.
but its the passing through clouds that scares me! up and down. more often down then up.
Sheena,
those links are actually excellent.
I read the whole pilots thread on Comair in Lexington and one thing jumped out at me and confirmed something I've always suspected:
to get into a plane for a 6 am departure is a struggle. I often wondered about how there must be pilots and crew similarly tired at 6 am. when the Lexington thing happened, it did jump at me that it was a 6 am flight.
then, on this thread, pilots and crew are saying they have to speak out about 6 am flights to improve safety.
I think an 8 pm flight is easier for crews than a 6 am flight.
those links are actually excellent.
I read the whole pilots thread on Comair in Lexington and one thing jumped out at me and confirmed something I've always suspected:
to get into a plane for a 6 am departure is a struggle. I often wondered about how there must be pilots and crew similarly tired at 6 am. when the Lexington thing happened, it did jump at me that it was a 6 am flight.
then, on this thread, pilots and crew are saying they have to speak out about 6 am flights to improve safety.
I think an 8 pm flight is easier for crews than a 6 am flight.
Your welcome, Chucker.
I really do follow this stuff closely, despite my surface obsessions with all things Maple Leaf Lounge.
I really do follow this stuff closely, despite my surface obsessions with all things Maple Leaf Lounge.
Cameron Campbell said...
"The rivets rotate in their holes. This does not mean they are no longer doing their job. It just freaks the fuck out of me. "
Actually, rivets are relatively minor, taken by themselves. The wings of an aircraft are held in place with only a couple of main spar bolts that are very critical, which bolt the wing spars onto the load bearing structures of the fuselage. These bolts are special bolts that are made of alloy steels and are inspected regularly for any hint of integrity loss.
The point being that even if you see a single or even a couple of rivets vibrating loose in flight, its not very likely to cause a catastrophic structual failure, but you should always report it to the crew, who are obliged to make a note of it that will ensure that an inspection takes place.
The load bearing structural member of a wing is called the spar, and its buried deep inside the wing where you cannot see it.
"The rivets rotate in their holes. This does not mean they are no longer doing their job. It just freaks the fuck out of me. "
Actually, rivets are relatively minor, taken by themselves. The wings of an aircraft are held in place with only a couple of main spar bolts that are very critical, which bolt the wing spars onto the load bearing structures of the fuselage. These bolts are special bolts that are made of alloy steels and are inspected regularly for any hint of integrity loss.
The point being that even if you see a single or even a couple of rivets vibrating loose in flight, its not very likely to cause a catastrophic structual failure, but you should always report it to the crew, who are obliged to make a note of it that will ensure that an inspection takes place.
The load bearing structural member of a wing is called the spar, and its buried deep inside the wing where you cannot see it.
Which is why I said it wasn't a big deal and that they were still doing their job.
You're argumentative even when people are on the same page as you.
You're argumentative even when people are on the same page as you.
Cameron you're so full of piss and vinegar today!
I am pretty much the type of person who would be afraid of flying, but I figure once I'm on the plane there's not sweet FA under my control so I might as well chill instead of stress about it, cuz whaddya gonna do?
I am pretty much the type of person who would be afraid of flying, but I figure once I'm on the plane there's not sweet FA under my control so I might as well chill instead of stress about it, cuz whaddya gonna do?
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:09:00 PM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:09:00 PM
Yeah, I try and not worry about things that are beyond my control...
Though I have to say that people who flew before all those aeronautic shows came on TLC were probably happier.
Though I have to say that people who flew before all those aeronautic shows came on TLC were probably happier.
Cameron, I guess that "conservatives", unlike "neocons", just have trouble with Her Majesty's English. Neocons in contrast calibrate their words quite purposefully to mislead and deceive others.
Incidently, I think chucker is also correct about flying at ungodly hours.
It seems to me, that commercial flying which serves passengers, courier and other users, should be able to complete their business from about 7:30AM until about 7:30PM in the evening. That is a twelve hour duty day for aircrew, and that leaves plenty of "off peak" hours for maintanence crews to proper do their jobs from 7:30 PM until about 7:30 AM the next morning. It also makes much better use of the time blocks for air freight operations, that can take place late at night, and free up daytime landing slots for commercial airline use.
There are some really good examples of airlines that "get it" (Continental Airlines for instance) that is getting rid of the "hub and spoke" systems and replacing them with long range direct flights. While less frequent then "connector flights", they are more cost effective, use less fuel, and are much better for passengers and crews alike, to say nothing about security concerns.
However, that means that we need to "re-regulate" the airlines industry, which would not only improve the energy picture, upgrade the entire array of current misappropriations for "hubs", and properly pay aircrews for the jobs they actually do.
Of course, that means throwing all the "neocon" political ideology down the toilet, and going back to a time when airline flying was comfortable, affordable, and much more enjoyable then the current prison like atmosphere that has been created by Emperor George II.
You see, all that garbage introduced by Ronnie Ray Gun, has made matters worse, not better, for the traveling public.
As you know, it was Ronnie Ray Guns genius to make all the airplanes increase their landing and take off cycles through the operation of "hubs" which of course bring many high speed aircraft into close proximity with each other in control zones. That is a serious and unnecessary "risk" since the first rule of air traffic control is "separation".
Every "mid-air" collision and "near miss" is directly due to "neocon" ideology and policy.
Make no mistake about it, "neocon" policy kills. Which I suppose, for individuals like Joe Fell Off A Cow in Calgary and Chuckercanuck, is an ultimate form of "poetic justice" when they are riding on these aircraft.
Incidently, I think chucker is also correct about flying at ungodly hours.
It seems to me, that commercial flying which serves passengers, courier and other users, should be able to complete their business from about 7:30AM until about 7:30PM in the evening. That is a twelve hour duty day for aircrew, and that leaves plenty of "off peak" hours for maintanence crews to proper do their jobs from 7:30 PM until about 7:30 AM the next morning. It also makes much better use of the time blocks for air freight operations, that can take place late at night, and free up daytime landing slots for commercial airline use.
There are some really good examples of airlines that "get it" (Continental Airlines for instance) that is getting rid of the "hub and spoke" systems and replacing them with long range direct flights. While less frequent then "connector flights", they are more cost effective, use less fuel, and are much better for passengers and crews alike, to say nothing about security concerns.
However, that means that we need to "re-regulate" the airlines industry, which would not only improve the energy picture, upgrade the entire array of current misappropriations for "hubs", and properly pay aircrews for the jobs they actually do.
Of course, that means throwing all the "neocon" political ideology down the toilet, and going back to a time when airline flying was comfortable, affordable, and much more enjoyable then the current prison like atmosphere that has been created by Emperor George II.
You see, all that garbage introduced by Ronnie Ray Gun, has made matters worse, not better, for the traveling public.
As you know, it was Ronnie Ray Guns genius to make all the airplanes increase their landing and take off cycles through the operation of "hubs" which of course bring many high speed aircraft into close proximity with each other in control zones. That is a serious and unnecessary "risk" since the first rule of air traffic control is "separation".
Every "mid-air" collision and "near miss" is directly due to "neocon" ideology and policy.
Make no mistake about it, "neocon" policy kills. Which I suppose, for individuals like Joe Fell Off A Cow in Calgary and Chuckercanuck, is an ultimate form of "poetic justice" when they are riding on these aircraft.
Derek Pearce said...
"I am pretty much the type of person who would be afraid of flying, but I figure once I'm on the plane there's not sweet FA under my control so I might as well chill instead of stress about it, cuz whaddya gonna do? "
I can sympathize with you Derek, and its all too common that "fear" can spoil an otherwise very enjoyable flight. For example, an aircraft in a properly run Canadian airline operation (for example Air Canada) has almost a certain chance of arriving on schedule, and almost no chance of not making it safely to some alternative airport safely. But that fear can spoil an otherwise wonderful opportunity to enjoy the flight. For example, on a flight from Edmonton or Calgary to Vancouver on a clear day over the Rockies is simply spectacular. In the old days, the pilots would let passengers come into the cockpit and see the view, and take pictures, which can be breathtaking on a clear day.
And dining on a real carved roast, with real French wine at 36,000 feet and over 500 knots, is a true marvel of an experience. It was a time that used real china and real silver, just like on the old passenger trains that made travel such an enjoyable experience.
And to then finish that off with a nice brandy, or a dessert put the icing on the cake, and make the flight a memorable one.
That and much more, is what "neocons" have robbed our people of with their strange phobias and bizzare policies.
"I am pretty much the type of person who would be afraid of flying, but I figure once I'm on the plane there's not sweet FA under my control so I might as well chill instead of stress about it, cuz whaddya gonna do? "
I can sympathize with you Derek, and its all too common that "fear" can spoil an otherwise very enjoyable flight. For example, an aircraft in a properly run Canadian airline operation (for example Air Canada) has almost a certain chance of arriving on schedule, and almost no chance of not making it safely to some alternative airport safely. But that fear can spoil an otherwise wonderful opportunity to enjoy the flight. For example, on a flight from Edmonton or Calgary to Vancouver on a clear day over the Rockies is simply spectacular. In the old days, the pilots would let passengers come into the cockpit and see the view, and take pictures, which can be breathtaking on a clear day.
And dining on a real carved roast, with real French wine at 36,000 feet and over 500 knots, is a true marvel of an experience. It was a time that used real china and real silver, just like on the old passenger trains that made travel such an enjoyable experience.
And to then finish that off with a nice brandy, or a dessert put the icing on the cake, and make the flight a memorable one.
That and much more, is what "neocons" have robbed our people of with their strange phobias and bizzare policies.
Ummm.....
First Class on Air New Zealand (who still has 3 classes on transPacific flights) has rack of lamb to order and Dom Perignon... those days still do exist, Joe Green.
First Class on Air New Zealand (who still has 3 classes on transPacific flights) has rack of lamb to order and Dom Perignon... those days still do exist, Joe Green.
I love flying. It's a rush.
Before 911, i'd always ask if i could see the view from the cockpit.
Nothing like seeing the stars and sun and mountains from the front thru a big window.
And all those controls and doo dads.
Wow.
Before 911, i'd always ask if i could see the view from the cockpit.
Nothing like seeing the stars and sun and mountains from the front thru a big window.
And all those controls and doo dads.
Wow.
# posted by : Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:35:00 PM
: Sunday, September 03, 2006 4:35:00 PM
Well Sheena, perhaps you are right that these pleasures of flying still do exist, but it is increasingly rare.
Too much "airline food", plastic, and "fear" has marred what should be a pleasurable experience for most people.
Do you remember some of the nice things that used to take place on Wardair flights between Canadian cities and Hawaii or Burmuda?
All that is no gone, thanks to Peter Lougheed and the "neocons" that destroyed these air carriers in pursuit of their irrational and self defeating quest for "profit".
Its reached a new low where intelligent people today both loath and fear flying. Its all irrational, but it certainly does feed the "neocon" political agenda, which is why we still irrationally tolerate it by tolerating them in power.
Remember the famous words of President Roosevelt. "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself".
These words and speeches, like those of Mr. Churchill, will endure over time.
On the other time, Emperor George II and his speeches about "mushroom clouds" will fade into history, much like the forgotten exhortations of President Polk in his pursuit of Imperial Washington at the expense of the First Nations, the Spaniards, and the Mexicans.
Too much "airline food", plastic, and "fear" has marred what should be a pleasurable experience for most people.
Do you remember some of the nice things that used to take place on Wardair flights between Canadian cities and Hawaii or Burmuda?
All that is no gone, thanks to Peter Lougheed and the "neocons" that destroyed these air carriers in pursuit of their irrational and self defeating quest for "profit".
Its reached a new low where intelligent people today both loath and fear flying. Its all irrational, but it certainly does feed the "neocon" political agenda, which is why we still irrationally tolerate it by tolerating them in power.
Remember the famous words of President Roosevelt. "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself".
These words and speeches, like those of Mr. Churchill, will endure over time.
On the other time, Emperor George II and his speeches about "mushroom clouds" will fade into history, much like the forgotten exhortations of President Polk in his pursuit of Imperial Washington at the expense of the First Nations, the Spaniards, and the Mexicans.
Incidently tz, today you would never be allowed into the cockpit of an airliner in flight to have a look at the view, to take some pictures, or to listen to the pilot answer some specific question you might have about a noise, or something that is unknown or frightening.
Today you would never see the Captain leave the cockpit, walk down the isle to chat with passengers and reassure them that the flight is progressing smoothly with everything under control.
Just a few of the things lost because it idiots in the White House being allowed to use fear against their own people.
Most pilots I know welcome a chance to share their love of flying with passengers, and particularly youngsters who might be looking at a career in aviation.
By letting passengers "see for themselves" what is going in inside the cockpit, is a great calming experience. Removing the "unknown" always does that.
Today you would never see the Captain leave the cockpit, walk down the isle to chat with passengers and reassure them that the flight is progressing smoothly with everything under control.
Just a few of the things lost because it idiots in the White House being allowed to use fear against their own people.
Most pilots I know welcome a chance to share their love of flying with passengers, and particularly youngsters who might be looking at a career in aviation.
By letting passengers "see for themselves" what is going in inside the cockpit, is a great calming experience. Removing the "unknown" always does that.
Today you would never see the Captain leave the cockpit, walk down the isle to chat with passengers and reassure them that the flight is progressing smoothly with everything under control.
No, now you see the captain with his pants around his ankles banging on the cabin door to get back in after his morning fuel dump.
oops
No, now you see the captain with his pants around his ankles banging on the cabin door to get back in after his morning fuel dump.
oops
Joe Green, its very interesting, you'd find common cause with meon so much of what you said on this topic, notably:
7:30 am to 7:30 pm as the operating window. I'd be looser and say all take-offs are between those times, but the general concept and specific times you state are very good.
Its too bad you have to spoil it with the neokon crap.
Let you in on a little secret, because I think it helps the debate to share this with you:
You don't have to tie every point you made to your anti-neokon agenda. If you use the tie-in judiciously, you doubly improve your ability to influence people.
With your sensible suggestions re: airlines, if you leave them without any anti-neokon tie-in, people will say: there's small proof Joe Green talks sense. That little bit of legitimacy won independent of the anti-neokon agenda wins you legitimacy on the the anti-neokon agenda.
Capiche? Its tricky, but necessary to successfully propagandize.
Notice how I didn't left wing anything on my fear of flying post. I could have talked about unions - like air traffic control -which played a role in Lexington's Comair crash.
7:30 am to 7:30 pm as the operating window. I'd be looser and say all take-offs are between those times, but the general concept and specific times you state are very good.
Its too bad you have to spoil it with the neokon crap.
Let you in on a little secret, because I think it helps the debate to share this with you:
You don't have to tie every point you made to your anti-neokon agenda. If you use the tie-in judiciously, you doubly improve your ability to influence people.
With your sensible suggestions re: airlines, if you leave them without any anti-neokon tie-in, people will say: there's small proof Joe Green talks sense. That little bit of legitimacy won independent of the anti-neokon agenda wins you legitimacy on the the anti-neokon agenda.
Capiche? Its tricky, but necessary to successfully propagandize.
Notice how I didn't left wing anything on my fear of flying post. I could have talked about unions - like air traffic control -which played a role in Lexington's Comair crash.
Jacobin - please. Cameron was obviously joking about "hating engineers". Don't be such a dork.
Chucker, I too have a fear of flying, although I do make myself do it. It's better to travel by train or ship, but who can afford the tickets - or the time off work, etc.? Maybe once I'm as wealthy as Joan Crawford in Sudden Fear, which I watched last night and which was dyn-o-mite.
Chucker, I too have a fear of flying, although I do make myself do it. It's better to travel by train or ship, but who can afford the tickets - or the time off work, etc.? Maybe once I'm as wealthy as Joan Crawford in Sudden Fear, which I watched last night and which was dyn-o-mite.
on the captain - passenger relationship:
Joe Green, I agree 100%.
Earlier, you were fairly venomous in reaction to my happiness flying American Airlines.
It is not just that American Airlines is on time, that I like them. Its not just the leg room - which my knees like.
Its because their captains talk the most. They tell you what cities/landmarks you'll fly over. They coach you through bad weather the best.
That helps me a lot and I am grateful for that attention from American Airlines Pilots.
Joe Green, I agree 100%.
Earlier, you were fairly venomous in reaction to my happiness flying American Airlines.
It is not just that American Airlines is on time, that I like them. Its not just the leg room - which my knees like.
Its because their captains talk the most. They tell you what cities/landmarks you'll fly over. They coach you through bad weather the best.
That helps me a lot and I am grateful for that attention from American Airlines Pilots.
As for Continental:
They do still operate hubs, Cleveland notably for me. Houston is another hub.
Hubs are a good concept, you just can't make the same airport a hub for many airlines at once.
Hub cities in the Northeast US: Boston, NYC, Phili, DC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnatti, Detroit, Toronto.
That's pretty much it. Baltimore and Montreal, non-hub cities, get lots of flights into all those hubs, plus: Chicago, Denver, Dallas, LAX, Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte...
Hubs aren't a crazy concept until you get to places like Chicago and Atlanta where too much is going through single airports.
They do still operate hubs, Cleveland notably for me. Houston is another hub.
Hubs are a good concept, you just can't make the same airport a hub for many airlines at once.
Hub cities in the Northeast US: Boston, NYC, Phili, DC, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnatti, Detroit, Toronto.
That's pretty much it. Baltimore and Montreal, non-hub cities, get lots of flights into all those hubs, plus: Chicago, Denver, Dallas, LAX, Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte...
Hubs aren't a crazy concept until you get to places like Chicago and Atlanta where too much is going through single airports.
err... except for that time that we ran out of gas and I knew 5 minutes before they announced our diversion to a cargo airport for emergency refueling.
Yes, really.
That was the time it took me 26 hours to get home from San Francisco. Bad weather over O'Hare, so circled until we were dry. Had to divert to Rockford IL to refuel. By the time that all got done, and O'hare cleared up enough to land, missed all possible connections to get to Canada.
That was the time it took me 26 hours to get home from San Francisco. Bad weather over O'Hare, so circled until we were dry. Had to divert to Rockford IL to refuel. By the time that all got done, and O'hare cleared up enough to land, missed all possible connections to get to Canada.
chuckercanuck said
"Earlier, you were fairly venomous in reaction to my happiness flying American Airlines."
I was, and for a reason. What you praise at American Airlines was already in place in Canada long before Ronnie Ray Gun set out to destroy the airline industry in the US and around the world.
Not only were Air Canada aircrew friendly and helpful, but the sort of thing where passengers could go to the cockpit and have a view of the Rockies were pretty regular fare, indeed also at Canadian Pacific Airlines. And Wardair service was legendary. And Pacific Western Airlines was the real Workhorse in the West, operating safely and efficiently from some of the most remote airfields in Canada.
So what you are praising are the qualities of a regulated airline industry. The unions provided quality service, and you could be assured that the ground crew would not be jerked around by overly ambitious management. On the other hand, because it was regulated, the management always had a way out when it got into a tight corner on air fares and excessive predatory pricing and "competition" that could not be sustained over the long haul.
I just don't know why you find it so difficult to admit that the regulated system for air carriers worked very well for Canadians, and we only started hearing about critical mistakes after the "neocon" crazies started managing these airline companies without a regulatory framework.
Predictably, Canadian Pacific, Pacific Western, Wardair, even little Time Air all were destroyed and bankrupted by "deregulation". And Air Canada almost hit the same wall.
Now chucker, admit it, that deregulating the Canadian airline industry was a dreadful mistake foisted upon Canadians by "neocons" in the Lyin Brian Mulroney Government, that foisted the entire mess of NAFTA upon our industries as well.
Truely an economic plan built on quicksand.
As for me, I would never fly on American Airlines, no matter how friendly the aircrew would be, and I believe you when you say they are friendly. Its the whores that run it that I shall not support with my fares. And they can take their hub at "Bush International" in Dallas Fort Worth and shove it up their ass for all I care.
For me, who you do business with matters.
"Earlier, you were fairly venomous in reaction to my happiness flying American Airlines."
I was, and for a reason. What you praise at American Airlines was already in place in Canada long before Ronnie Ray Gun set out to destroy the airline industry in the US and around the world.
Not only were Air Canada aircrew friendly and helpful, but the sort of thing where passengers could go to the cockpit and have a view of the Rockies were pretty regular fare, indeed also at Canadian Pacific Airlines. And Wardair service was legendary. And Pacific Western Airlines was the real Workhorse in the West, operating safely and efficiently from some of the most remote airfields in Canada.
So what you are praising are the qualities of a regulated airline industry. The unions provided quality service, and you could be assured that the ground crew would not be jerked around by overly ambitious management. On the other hand, because it was regulated, the management always had a way out when it got into a tight corner on air fares and excessive predatory pricing and "competition" that could not be sustained over the long haul.
I just don't know why you find it so difficult to admit that the regulated system for air carriers worked very well for Canadians, and we only started hearing about critical mistakes after the "neocon" crazies started managing these airline companies without a regulatory framework.
Predictably, Canadian Pacific, Pacific Western, Wardair, even little Time Air all were destroyed and bankrupted by "deregulation". And Air Canada almost hit the same wall.
Now chucker, admit it, that deregulating the Canadian airline industry was a dreadful mistake foisted upon Canadians by "neocons" in the Lyin Brian Mulroney Government, that foisted the entire mess of NAFTA upon our industries as well.
Truely an economic plan built on quicksand.
As for me, I would never fly on American Airlines, no matter how friendly the aircrew would be, and I believe you when you say they are friendly. Its the whores that run it that I shall not support with my fares. And they can take their hub at "Bush International" in Dallas Fort Worth and shove it up their ass for all I care.
For me, who you do business with matters.
May want to give Porter Air a bit of time until they work out the kinks too... spent part of the afternoon waving my fist angrily at the toronto air show today in the company of a prop-porn nerd who had a scanner and was listening to traffic control at the island. Their new Dash 8 had a few 'difficulties' landing the first time round. Had to be directed to the holding box NE of the lakeshore so the F18 could get through as scheduled.
Sigh...
Sigh...
chuckercanuck wrote this interesting contradiction.
"Hubs are a good concept, you just can't make the same airport a hub for many airlines at once."
Hubs are an insane idea designed by "deregulation" to increase profits through additional exploitation of staff and equipment primarily. The hubs themselves carry excessive air traffic, and increase the hazards of mid air collisions and human error, both in the cockpit and in the control tower.
It also turns air travel into a visit to the local prison, and the delays of course are monumental and unsustainable.
Finally, it dramatically increases wear and tear on the aircraft through shorter hops and more landings and takeoffs, without adding to passenger comfort. Indeed for many people who have head colds, air travel these days is an agony because of the many large pressurization changes that one must endure from the start to the end of one's journey.
But the nuttiest thing of all is the way we now fly aircraft thousands of extra miles for "maintanence" because its a "cost" saving. Trust the MBAs in Calgary to not know their ass from a hole in the ground. Nor can they do the accounting properly.
But that is ENRON Accounting, summa cum laude, the hallmark of the "neocons".
And if you invest your money based upon their statements, then you DESERVE to lose your money for being DUMB.
You just don't get it do you chuckercanuck, you have been taken in by a political con game.
"Hubs are a good concept, you just can't make the same airport a hub for many airlines at once."
Hubs are an insane idea designed by "deregulation" to increase profits through additional exploitation of staff and equipment primarily. The hubs themselves carry excessive air traffic, and increase the hazards of mid air collisions and human error, both in the cockpit and in the control tower.
It also turns air travel into a visit to the local prison, and the delays of course are monumental and unsustainable.
Finally, it dramatically increases wear and tear on the aircraft through shorter hops and more landings and takeoffs, without adding to passenger comfort. Indeed for many people who have head colds, air travel these days is an agony because of the many large pressurization changes that one must endure from the start to the end of one's journey.
But the nuttiest thing of all is the way we now fly aircraft thousands of extra miles for "maintanence" because its a "cost" saving. Trust the MBAs in Calgary to not know their ass from a hole in the ground. Nor can they do the accounting properly.
But that is ENRON Accounting, summa cum laude, the hallmark of the "neocons".
And if you invest your money based upon their statements, then you DESERVE to lose your money for being DUMB.
You just don't get it do you chuckercanuck, you have been taken in by a political con game.
I'm a "reading a book" flier. I figure worrying about the flight has about as much effect trying to be civil to trolls... ie: NIL!
My wife is a nervous flier so I usually hold her hand and talk to distract her. She figures take-offs and landings are the most dangerous part of the flight so that's when she's at her worst.
Some years back, she awakened me with a scream in the middle of the night as she had the Perfect Storm of nightmares. At the time, she was pregnant with our first child. She dreamt that she went into labour aboard an airplane which kept taking off and landing, over and over, and she couldn't find me...
My wife is a nervous flier so I usually hold her hand and talk to distract her. She figures take-offs and landings are the most dangerous part of the flight so that's when she's at her worst.
Some years back, she awakened me with a scream in the middle of the night as she had the Perfect Storm of nightmares. At the time, she was pregnant with our first child. She dreamt that she went into labour aboard an airplane which kept taking off and landing, over and over, and she couldn't find me...
joanne wrote.
"Forunately, my one year in engineering had no affect on me."
That explains your analysis of things perfectly.
"Forunately, my one year in engineering had no affect on me."
That explains your analysis of things perfectly.
mac wrote.
"Some years back, she awakened me with a scream in the middle of the night as she had the Perfect Storm of nightmares. At the time, she was pregnant with our first child. She dreamt that she went into labour aboard an airplane which kept taking off and landing, over and over, and she couldn't find me... "
Mac, I am very sure that your wife's fears are very real to her. But they never the less are irrational and there are some really good ways to deal with them. The best starting point in my view is to get rid of the unknowns, and take lots of time to explain and show her how things actually work on airplanes. And a short trip where you can explain to her the way the airplane's motion feels on her body and the sights and sounds are also very important to explain.
I once was a passenger on an Airbus with a wheel bay fire. I was able to calm many nearby passengers by simply identifying myself as a former RCAF pilot, and then to explain to them what was happening, what the sounds were, and what was happening. It was an Air Canada flight, and the pilot made a perfect landing. Then I had to explain to them why we were safer inside the aircraft in this kind of situation, then if we evacuated the aircraft onto the runway. As matters turned out, there were no significant consequences, we got another aircraft, and were soon on our way.
Many of these folks thanked me when we reached the terminal and said they were very frightened but understanding what was happening make the experience much more manageable.
"Some years back, she awakened me with a scream in the middle of the night as she had the Perfect Storm of nightmares. At the time, she was pregnant with our first child. She dreamt that she went into labour aboard an airplane which kept taking off and landing, over and over, and she couldn't find me... "
Mac, I am very sure that your wife's fears are very real to her. But they never the less are irrational and there are some really good ways to deal with them. The best starting point in my view is to get rid of the unknowns, and take lots of time to explain and show her how things actually work on airplanes. And a short trip where you can explain to her the way the airplane's motion feels on her body and the sights and sounds are also very important to explain.
I once was a passenger on an Airbus with a wheel bay fire. I was able to calm many nearby passengers by simply identifying myself as a former RCAF pilot, and then to explain to them what was happening, what the sounds were, and what was happening. It was an Air Canada flight, and the pilot made a perfect landing. Then I had to explain to them why we were safer inside the aircraft in this kind of situation, then if we evacuated the aircraft onto the runway. As matters turned out, there were no significant consequences, we got another aircraft, and were soon on our way.
Many of these folks thanked me when we reached the terminal and said they were very frightened but understanding what was happening make the experience much more manageable.
Yes, Joanne, people do that.
Especially those of us who choose to remain aware of the world around us.
Especially those of us who choose to remain aware of the world around us.
joe green,
no contradiction in hubs being in different cities for different airlines. but here's a contradiction you might not like having to swollow:
you spit on Ameircan Airlines and the Bush Dallas Fort Worth airport.
as you likely know, DFW has no such association. but there is an airport called the George Bush Internationa Airport. Its in Houston.
whose hub is the Bush International Airport? Continental. The airline you said nice things about earlier this thread.
no contradiction in hubs being in different cities for different airlines. but here's a contradiction you might not like having to swollow:
you spit on Ameircan Airlines and the Bush Dallas Fort Worth airport.
as you likely know, DFW has no such association. but there is an airport called the George Bush Internationa Airport. Its in Houston.
whose hub is the Bush International Airport? Continental. The airline you said nice things about earlier this thread.
joe,
I find the more I know about aircraft, operations, weather, etc.,etc. the better it is.
my worst flight was Atlanta to Mtl, with a MAJOR divert at Charleston, VA.
The following 20 minutes after a sharp turn west was the most heart-pounding, violent turbulence through a storm.
It helped though, that a pilot was babbling calmly to his neighbouring passenger in the row behind me - explaining the weather situation perfectly. Of course, I was a little angry that he could be so calm in such a terrifying weather - but happy to listen too.
I find the more I know about aircraft, operations, weather, etc.,etc. the better it is.
my worst flight was Atlanta to Mtl, with a MAJOR divert at Charleston, VA.
The following 20 minutes after a sharp turn west was the most heart-pounding, violent turbulence through a storm.
It helped though, that a pilot was babbling calmly to his neighbouring passenger in the row behind me - explaining the weather situation perfectly. Of course, I was a little angry that he could be so calm in such a terrifying weather - but happy to listen too.
Continental? Houston? Oh yeah.. my one experience with windshear and an aborted landing. Got off and swore that I was not getting on the connection to Austin and that my flying days were over. Until the little old lady who sat behind me doing her rosary decided to keep on going, and well... Sheena's competitive side kicked in.
Joanne said...
""That explains your analysis of things perfectly.""
"What does that mean???"
Exactly what it says, no more and no less.
""That explains your analysis of things perfectly.""
"What does that mean???"
Exactly what it says, no more and no less.
chuckercanuck wrote
"as you likely know, DFW has no such association. but there is an airport called the George Bush Internationa Airport. Its in Houston."
It matters not to me, I do not intend to travel there for either business or pleasure. If I want to visit a looney bin, I do not have to travel further than to Calgary.
"as you likely know, DFW has no such association. but there is an airport called the George Bush Internationa Airport. Its in Houston."
It matters not to me, I do not intend to travel there for either business or pleasure. If I want to visit a looney bin, I do not have to travel further than to Calgary.
chuckercanuck wrote
"It helped though, that a pilot was babbling calmly to his neighbouring passenger in the row behind me - explaining the weather situation perfectly. Of course, I was a little angry that he could be so calm in such a terrifying weather - but happy to listen too."
Well that was basically the same thing that I was saying.
When it comes to rough weather, it seems to me that the airlines push the schedules too hard and sometimes operate beyond the capability of their equipment and aircrew.
There is absolutely nothing more dangerous in aviation, then a fucked up manager that is leaning upon aircrew to keep on flying even when they know that it is very close to the margins.
I have operated aircraft (without passengers) into pretty heavy thunder cells. Its pretty damned dangerous, and its very rough for the average passenger who does not know what to expect. Air turbulence is much worse than sea sickness because the G-forces can mount very quickly and there is not too much that can be done about it.
Its the "human nature" between professional pilots trying to keep their passengers and aircraft safe, while trying to satisfy operational conditions that are profitable, that really is the lethal cocktail. In my view, safety MUST take precedence to profit, and there must be an economic reward for those that operate safely.
Deregulation does not satisfy that requirement, which is why I oppose it and the Ronnie Ray Gun agenda for aviation.
"It helped though, that a pilot was babbling calmly to his neighbouring passenger in the row behind me - explaining the weather situation perfectly. Of course, I was a little angry that he could be so calm in such a terrifying weather - but happy to listen too."
Well that was basically the same thing that I was saying.
When it comes to rough weather, it seems to me that the airlines push the schedules too hard and sometimes operate beyond the capability of their equipment and aircrew.
There is absolutely nothing more dangerous in aviation, then a fucked up manager that is leaning upon aircrew to keep on flying even when they know that it is very close to the margins.
I have operated aircraft (without passengers) into pretty heavy thunder cells. Its pretty damned dangerous, and its very rough for the average passenger who does not know what to expect. Air turbulence is much worse than sea sickness because the G-forces can mount very quickly and there is not too much that can be done about it.
Its the "human nature" between professional pilots trying to keep their passengers and aircraft safe, while trying to satisfy operational conditions that are profitable, that really is the lethal cocktail. In my view, safety MUST take precedence to profit, and there must be an economic reward for those that operate safely.
Deregulation does not satisfy that requirement, which is why I oppose it and the Ronnie Ray Gun agenda for aviation.
One last point on how the airline industry has been screwed up by "deregulation".
Once upon a time, if the airline decided that it could not fly, they would pamper you in a nice hotel with meals and other things, at their expense. It made you feel safe that they were more interested in your comfort and safety, then in wringing out the last nickel that could be made on your fare.
Again, all that is gone so that we now often see the absurd situation of passengers sleeping in terminal buildings as they suffer long waits for connecting flights.
When I used to travel to Asia, Cathay Pacific that flew direct from Vancouver to Hong Kong, would always put us up in a comfortable hotel for an overnight stay to get rid of jet lag and get a nice fresh start after a good nights sleep. They knew all the tricks about what kind of food to feed you to help with the jet lag.
Did you know that the menus are selected differently moving west to east than from east to west? Its true, or at least it used to be true.
Once again, passenger comfort sacrificed so that whores like Dick Cheney and the rest of that bunch could rack up a few extra bucks.
Fuck them. I would rather stay home or drive.
Once upon a time, if the airline decided that it could not fly, they would pamper you in a nice hotel with meals and other things, at their expense. It made you feel safe that they were more interested in your comfort and safety, then in wringing out the last nickel that could be made on your fare.
Again, all that is gone so that we now often see the absurd situation of passengers sleeping in terminal buildings as they suffer long waits for connecting flights.
When I used to travel to Asia, Cathay Pacific that flew direct from Vancouver to Hong Kong, would always put us up in a comfortable hotel for an overnight stay to get rid of jet lag and get a nice fresh start after a good nights sleep. They knew all the tricks about what kind of food to feed you to help with the jet lag.
Did you know that the menus are selected differently moving west to east than from east to west? Its true, or at least it used to be true.
Once again, passenger comfort sacrificed so that whores like Dick Cheney and the rest of that bunch could rack up a few extra bucks.
Fuck them. I would rather stay home or drive.
"Don't get me started on NWA and their re-branding strategy."
I KNOW! When the switched from Nike to Adidas and gray hoodies?
I was very upset. Then Ice Cube left for his very successful solo career...
I KNOW! When the switched from Nike to Adidas and gray hoodies?
I was very upset. Then Ice Cube left for his very successful solo career...
Ok, worst story time my wife and a colleague get invited to speak at Siggraph (the link is to the year she spoke). The smallish problem being that she is, what's the biblical term? Heavy with child (around here she took to adopting geek slang and referring to herself as "big like Xbox").
Anyway, we fly down to San Diego (which is a town that defines "meh") and that's ok, the regular airline indignities (they'd just switched to "buy your meal for your convenience" - oddly vegetarians weren't meant to eat, which struck us as inconvenient).
On the way back there were storms. And they took off light with fuel (I've since learned that because of the surtax on fuel in California a lot of airlines do this). So we have to land in Baltimore to refuel. Then go on to Philly. Where our connecting flight is long gone - and there are no more that night. Which we only find out after being ushered out of the security area. Us and 2 - 3000 of our closest friends.
We get a hotel room, the last smoking room in a Hilton, and spend the night.
The next day we have to fight and bitch and behave generally like savages to get them to do their job and wind up flying through TO.
Anyway, we fly down to San Diego (which is a town that defines "meh") and that's ok, the regular airline indignities (they'd just switched to "buy your meal for your convenience" - oddly vegetarians weren't meant to eat, which struck us as inconvenient).
On the way back there were storms. And they took off light with fuel (I've since learned that because of the surtax on fuel in California a lot of airlines do this). So we have to land in Baltimore to refuel. Then go on to Philly. Where our connecting flight is long gone - and there are no more that night. Which we only find out after being ushered out of the security area. Us and 2 - 3000 of our closest friends.
We get a hotel room, the last smoking room in a Hilton, and spend the night.
The next day we have to fight and bitch and behave generally like savages to get them to do their job and wind up flying through TO.
yup, that describes torture.
and i really didn't want to hear the wind-shear in Houston story.
i wonder joe, if there's a market for scheduled-sanity airlines.
I'd bet yes. The airline runs 1 type of plane to simplyfy maintenance. operates between 7.30 am and 7.30 pm.
cancels or diverts for bad weather.
I'd be a customer, that's for sure.
and i really didn't want to hear the wind-shear in Houston story.
i wonder joe, if there's a market for scheduled-sanity airlines.
I'd bet yes. The airline runs 1 type of plane to simplyfy maintenance. operates between 7.30 am and 7.30 pm.
cancels or diverts for bad weather.
I'd be a customer, that's for sure.
Oops, sorry Chucker.
The only time I've been near tears on a flight. After 30 minutes of wild turbulence finally we were landing. Not far off the ground, didn't know how many feet exactly, but I could see individual blades of grass. And then we skyrocketed back up in an instant.
I really considered not continuing and taking a 3-day train ride home. I think it was day 8 of a 17 day roadtrip... Just tired I suppose.
The only time I've been near tears on a flight. After 30 minutes of wild turbulence finally we were landing. Not far off the ground, didn't know how many feet exactly, but I could see individual blades of grass. And then we skyrocketed back up in an instant.
I really considered not continuing and taking a 3-day train ride home. I think it was day 8 of a 17 day roadtrip... Just tired I suppose.
My daughter just got back from a nightmare business trip to Taiwan. They were supposed to go through from Toronto to Hong Kong and then Taiwan, but then the plane got downsized at the last minute. Had to spend four hours refueling at Vancouver. Couldn't get off the plane; couldn't flush the toilet...
Then on to Hong Kong, but typhoons there so diverted to Taiwan, but luggage couldn't be taken off there, so back to Hong Kong, but luggage got lost. Back to Taiwan. Luggage showed up three days later, along with more typhoons.
I was glad to see her get home.
Then on to Hong Kong, but typhoons there so diverted to Taiwan, but luggage couldn't be taken off there, so back to Hong Kong, but luggage got lost. Back to Taiwan. Luggage showed up three days later, along with more typhoons.
I was glad to see her get home.
Charles, you know how you get onto a bus or plane and you look around quick like to see who's there?
We transfered buses at a sketchy truck stop somewhere south of DC and I glanced around and it was "Marine on leave, little old ladies, scary looking guy working the drug dealer aesthetic, his switch blade, college ki... wha? SWITCH BLADE ON SEAT? WHA?" So, we sat as far away from him as possible.
The high light of that trip back was the driver who said "Don't nobody be taken off their shoes, I don't wanna be smelling no toe jam."
We transfered buses at a sketchy truck stop somewhere south of DC and I glanced around and it was "Marine on leave, little old ladies, scary looking guy working the drug dealer aesthetic, his switch blade, college ki... wha? SWITCH BLADE ON SEAT? WHA?" So, we sat as far away from him as possible.
The high light of that trip back was the driver who said "Don't nobody be taken off their shoes, I don't wanna be smelling no toe jam."
Chucker, just leave the consulting world and start that family band you've been dreaming of. Problem solved.
You could write the songs that make the whole world sing, staying on the ground, crushing roadkill in the Propagandabago as you go.
I think that might even be a good name for the band, come to think of it.
Pickle Lake, here we come!
You could write the songs that make the whole world sing, staying on the ground, crushing roadkill in the Propagandabago as you go.
I think that might even be a good name for the band, come to think of it.
Pickle Lake, here we come!
# posted by : Monday, September 04, 2006 11:37:00 AM
: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:37:00 AM
Got the name for your first hit:
"There's something on the wing!"
what a fun chorus that could be...
"Everybody!...."
"There's something on the wing!"
what a fun chorus that could be...
"Everybody!...."
# posted by : Monday, September 04, 2006 11:43:00 AM
: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:43:00 AM
Actually chucker, there was an airline that got started in the US to cater to the business traveller. They used smaller aircraft and did many things that we have been talking about. There is a premium on the tickets, but it seems that not everyone is sold on the "value" of "sane" flying. As you know, most corporations these days are "bottom liners" and that is because the MBAs that run them do not give a shit for the inconvenience and suffering of their staff have to endure with all this shit while travelling the "friendly skies" that Ronnie Ray Gun created.
So I do not know if they are still around. Many corporations have gone to using "charter flights" to get around most of these problems, and that is not only more comfortable but also less costly.
Of course, you should be agreeable to that because it also "privatizes" air travel.
This is what academics call "The Tragedy of the Commons".
So you can all stare "market forces" in the face, because what is out there today is what "deregulation" really looks like.
You got what you asked for.
So I do not know if they are still around. Many corporations have gone to using "charter flights" to get around most of these problems, and that is not only more comfortable but also less costly.
Of course, you should be agreeable to that because it also "privatizes" air travel.
This is what academics call "The Tragedy of the Commons".
So you can all stare "market forces" in the face, because what is out there today is what "deregulation" really looks like.
You got what you asked for.
Charles, get promoted some more and then force the company to subscribe to one of those private jet services.
uhh, yes, and its turned out quite communist in result:
lots more people have the option to fly when previously, it was exclusive for the upperest crusts.
lots more people have the option to fly when previously, it was exclusive for the upperest crusts.
joanne (TB) -
yikes!
Hopefully your daughter follows the Anne (Happier in Ontario) rule: drink! drink! drink!
cam -
sometimes we get picked up in corporate jets. but usually that's when its a large, family owned business where the jets a toy and they use it to impress you.
its impressive.
yikes!
Hopefully your daughter follows the Anne (Happier in Ontario) rule: drink! drink! drink!
cam -
sometimes we get picked up in corporate jets. but usually that's when its a large, family owned business where the jets a toy and they use it to impress you.
its impressive.
Peaches its a brilliant idea.
Sort of like Bob Roberts - a folk singing family that does right-wing-extremist propaganda.
we'd be huge in Wyoming.
Sort of like Bob Roberts - a folk singing family that does right-wing-extremist propaganda.
we'd be huge in Wyoming.
Chuckercanuck said...
"uhh, yes, and its turned out quite communist in result:"
How do you figure that??? All the deregulated airlines are now privately owned, in the context of public corporations whose shares are held by mostly institutional investors, trade unions, and private individuals. There is no government ownership of "the means of production".
So explain your comment.
Even the regulations have been watered down to the point where many people no longer wish to fly, and indeed do not even consider it safe to fly anymore.
"uhh, yes, and its turned out quite communist in result:"
How do you figure that??? All the deregulated airlines are now privately owned, in the context of public corporations whose shares are held by mostly institutional investors, trade unions, and private individuals. There is no government ownership of "the means of production".
So explain your comment.
Even the regulations have been watered down to the point where many people no longer wish to fly, and indeed do not even consider it safe to fly anymore.
Quick Cameron, get yourself elected as a Conservative, and then you will also get a chance to hitch a ride on the private jets of such groups as the feudin McCains.
Pistols at 30,000 feet.
Pistols at 30,000 feet.
Should be no problem Cameron, afterall the NRA says that possession of hand guns and pistols is a God Given Right to Self Defence.
You know whats so funny about that? It does not matter if its pistols or nuclear bombs, none of it can actually make you safer and more secure.
Do you feel more secure now than in 2000??? The only question for the 2008 US Presidential Election.
You know whats so funny about that? It does not matter if its pistols or nuclear bombs, none of it can actually make you safer and more secure.
Do you feel more secure now than in 2000??? The only question for the 2008 US Presidential Election.
My kingdom for a Liberal politician that goes to jail for Adscam.
# posted by : Monday, September 04, 2006 5:23:00 PM
: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:23:00 PM
Canute said...
"My kingdom for a Liberal politician that goes to jail for Adscam. "
Wheres the beef????
Only evidence so far is related to a Mr. Guite, and under $1.7M missing, IN TOTAL.
Sounds to me like a smear job by the Harpercons.
Go ahead. Make my Day.
Prove it, or forever hold your piece!
"My kingdom for a Liberal politician that goes to jail for Adscam. "
Wheres the beef????
Only evidence so far is related to a Mr. Guite, and under $1.7M missing, IN TOTAL.
Sounds to me like a smear job by the Harpercons.
Go ahead. Make my Day.
Prove it, or forever hold your piece!
"Quick Cameron, get yourself elected as a Conservative, and then you will also get a chance to hitch a ride on the private jets of such groups as the feudin McCains.
Pistols at 30,000 feet."
You were doing so well.
Pistols at 30,000 feet."
You were doing so well.
"Should be no problem Cameron, afterall the NRA says that possession of hand guns and pistols is a God Given Right to Self Defence.
You know whats so funny about that? It does not matter if its pistols or nuclear bombs, none of it can actually make you safer and more secure.
Do you feel more secure now than in 2000??? The only question for the 2008 US Presidential Election."
Again, so well you were doing.
Shot to hell (pun intended).
You know whats so funny about that? It does not matter if its pistols or nuclear bombs, none of it can actually make you safer and more secure.
Do you feel more secure now than in 2000??? The only question for the 2008 US Presidential Election."
Again, so well you were doing.
Shot to hell (pun intended).
Cameron Campbell said...
"Nice...
The gear failed to retract
the flaps are stuck up
the fuel has dumped.... "
About what I would expect with "neocons" like Pete Lougheed at the controls.
Brace yourself for landing!
(law of economic gravity, what goes up must come down)
"Nice...
The gear failed to retract
the flaps are stuck up
the fuel has dumped.... "
About what I would expect with "neocons" like Pete Lougheed at the controls.
Brace yourself for landing!
(law of economic gravity, what goes up must come down)
Hopefully your daughter follows the Anne (Happier in Ontario) rule: drink! drink! drink!
lol! Well, I don't think that's in her repetoire, but it wasn't all bad. She got a few great meals and hotel accomodations out of it, and some new clothes. And she got to see Hong Kong, which is something she had always wanted to do.
So you see, Chucker, some clouds do have silver linings. ;)
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lol! Well, I don't think that's in her repetoire, but it wasn't all bad. She got a few great meals and hotel accomodations out of it, and some new clothes. And she got to see Hong Kong, which is something she had always wanted to do.
So you see, Chucker, some clouds do have silver linings. ;)
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